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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 34 post(s) |
yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.30 14:32:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Tonto Auri Killed a good ship... /me spits
/signed
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.30 15:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 30/03/2009 15:11:27
BANGS
Why destroy a popular combat ship?
HEAD
Someone got tasked with fixing the bomber and invented a new ship instead?
ON
Your new ship has a place in new eden.
BRICK
So be nice to it and give it it's own name and hull :)
WALL
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.30 18:12:00 -
[3]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
The role of a stealthy glass cannon is to ambush and deliver a large amount of firepower through volleys of torpedoes onto large targets. To facilitate this new role better, the bonuses and some of the attributes are being changed appropriately.
At most you are going to be taking 1% or 2% EHP off your target per volley and at 10 second rof lame amounts of firepower would be a better description.
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Introduce a special bomber-only weapon:
The launcher itself has a very high ROF, meaning if you go with cruise missiles, you will have very good dps as long as your missiles last. However, there are two penalties:
a) Small capacity. You do huge dps, but only for a very short time.
b) Long reload time. As in, a full minute or so (ideally with just the standard 10 seconds if you reload out of combat to change missile types).
Both of these ensure that the stealth bomber is a proper ambush ship: you can do devastating damage in a very short amount of time, but if you don't plan your ambush carefully you're going to find yourself with a very angry target and nothing to shoot back with.
While i'm not sure about some of the finer details in Merins' idea the basic concept is sound and would in many ways work better with torps than cruise.
A cov ops cloak with merin launcher and affordable bombs would make this a flyable ship that passes the description of stealth bomber and its glass cannon attribute would ensure it remains balanced.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.30 21:05:00 -
[4]
Reading through this thread and the previous one the pure ingenuity of the pilots compared to the falcon thread is quite something.
-> Scout ship with support DPS -> Decloak/fire/recloak brawlers -> Ranged ECCM -> Ewar tag team with dictor support
I can add a few we've tried over the years such as the tanked bait cruiser in a belt surrounded by cloaked bombers and the plate fit surprise tackle hound.
CCP please understand that the people who have been appealing against this change have spent hours staring vacantly at their office wall to think up these tactics, many probably load batteries into electrical goods as though they were loading a launcher and have their dreams invaded by an overview and tactical overlay.
Like any niche ship it takes time and effort to crawl into that niche and make yourself comfortable but the prize of this effort is a diversity of tactics that is sadly lacking in many other ships, so the question becomes how to preserve this tactical diversity while still catering to CCP's OCD style compulsion to shoe horn every ship into a tactical box with matching SP sink.
The answer may be to split the bomber into 2 ships with different target choice:
Ship 1 - Chronotis DPS Taxi - aka Stealth Bomber
The idea would be to put anti BS weapons like torps and bombs on a cov-ops frigate. The usefulness of these weapons isn't greatly relevant because people will mainly use the ship as a safe means of transport in dangerous space.
Once enough of these taxis are in circulation diverse tactics will be ensured for the simple reason that every person in a corp will be able to fly one. Wolfpacks will spontaneously emerge from the resultant horde of 0.0 carebears bearing new found fangs and the happy shopper alliance will be born.
The Chronotis DPS Taxi finds itself irresistibly attracted to the vigil and her sexy target painters however love was thwarted when he found out that the vigil has a 5m3 dronebay because it is in fact a marsupial.
Ship 2 - The Tactical Frigate - aka back in the day
This ranged frigate is prized for its flexibility and ability to punch out at heavy cruises and some lighter vessels, it's cloaked velocity and passive targeting bonuses allowing for great tactical flexibility.
It's medium sized range weapons (Caldari = heavy missile, Matari = artillery etc) can hit at cruiser ranges while being considerably faster and lighter than said cruiser equivalent.
This ship is favored by people with Yorkshire accents who say things like "when I were a lad it'd be 32 hours a day down t'veldspar mine with nowt but half a can of quaffe for lunch and you'd feel lucky if you got your pod home and your dad'd give you a good speed tanking with t'raven."
Seriously Though
Tactical flexibility is the hallmark of the current bomber and what i don't want to see is a very fun ship removed from the game.
If you really must make the bomber only able to hit BS then please give us all the stuff you've removed back in a new frigate that covers smaller targets please
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.30 22:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Originally by: Tonto Auri
Originally by: Lindsay Logan No, and neither do you!
How could you know? Do you know me IRL?
Makes no difference, there are no future space ships in the current RL.
So, that answer was no. Then, please do not make any assumptions based on your lack of knowledge any more.
Confirming that Tonto is indeed an alien with supreme technological knowledge. His ship crashed in my garden and all i saw was a huge missile with appendages.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.31 00:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Marlenus
And the torps will be awesome in an anti-hauler / anti-barge role.
QFT
A ship is invented for a specific role that it doesn't quite fill so people invent novel tactics to get round its weak points.
Does anyone else see the irony?
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.01 00:20:00 -
[7]
Dr. Chronolove Or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Torp Bomber - Part 1 _________________________________________________________________________________
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
If there is one thing EVE has shown time-and-again is that players pile in to whatever is the safest ship to fly. Anything that will see them "get away" they do, en masse. Loaded with warp core stabs, dual-MWD ships, nano ships and so on. CCP has had to nerf them all and when they do players seek the next "safe" thing.
Good mini raven points.
I predict these will be very popular.
What's left of this mans hair is grey, he clearly saw the nerf bat in his youth so listen to him.
Prediction 1 - Popularity
3 years of being a trader has taught me to trust the Jita sales figures more than forum perceptions, the current best selling T2 frigate is the covert ops by a very long way. Some days it will sell more than double the number of units than any other T2 frig.
The reason for this popularity is the cov-ops cloak. Or in other words safety. As stated above by Imperator safety is a major draw for pod pilots and having the choice of guns instead of probes on your taxi will put a major dent in cov-ops sales.
Prediction 2 - The new torps will be used but not in the way Chronotis has stated
Virtually everyone in the game owns a cov-ops ship especially in 0.0, so once people start buying bombers instead then miners and haulers will be viable targets of opportunity as you are traveling about. If the bomber can survive light drones for long enough then we will see a lot of hulk kills.
Wolfpacks are also going to be more common for the aforementioned reason of popularity. I've seen poses with 7 or 8 cov-ops runnabouts lying in the hanger that rarely get used for probing, swap these for bombers and you have a ready made wolfpack.
Given the slim chances of finding lone battleships target painters will be the norm for wolfpacks and i can see vigil hulls being very popular as cheap support tackle. 2 rapiers and an arazu with a pack of cloaky bombers will eat there way through cruiser camps in no time.
In short torps will be used against the wide variety of targets you find when roaming and players will find a way to shoehorn enough painters and webs into the fleet to make it work.
What it won't be used for is taking down fleet battleships or soloing battleships for reasons stated many times in this thread.
I don't have the right experience to say how this will affect high sec warfare.
Prediction 4 - Done right this could herald the age of the black ops
Going out on a limb here but the idea of cloaky gangs doing hit and run raids on soft targets and being used as diversion tactics to split fleets and resources has always lacked one thing to make it work, noobs.
Currently only experienced players have the SP to fly recons and the lack of DPS makes them incapable of doing anything when they get there. Get a black ops battleship and blocade runner jumping a horde of new players in bombers about the place and suddenly you have the numbers to cause pain.
I know that this is theoretically possible now but FC's really haven't got their heads round black ops so the buff to cloaky gangs through turning bombers into 0.0 taxis might just tip the balance.
Over to CCP on this one
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.01 00:50:00 -
[8]
Dr. Chronolove Or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Torp Bomber - Part 2 _________________________________________________________________________________
Now for the ugly bit, what to do about the wasted SP, the gaping hole in the frigate lineup and BOMBS?
There is no precedent for the current situation, things have been nerfed, buffed and often bruised in the process but a ship has never been removed from the game entirely to be replaced by a different ship.
Through the nano nerfs no one ever tried to make the vagabond into a slow tough ship and the missile nerf didn't see the raven become a hybrid platform yet that is the magnitude of change we are seeing in the bomber.
For the record I quite like the idea of the new ship and will be testing on sisi soon. I also have a big soft spot for the old bomber and calling this new ship a stealth bomber seems like spitting on the grave of a good friend.
Skill Points
The manticore is a popular ship that can often turn over 100 units in a day in The Forge alone. The other races bombers are currently in the 50 units is a good day bracket which is surprisingly high for races who have no other reason to train cruise missiles.
Hopefully CCP have some form of data mining to find the number of non caldari players who have both cruise lvl 5 and covert ops lvl 4 because I believe it's quite a few and the next paragraph is afaik unique in the history of eve nerfs.
Any player who took the 2 months plus of skill training required for T2 cruise with lvl 4 support skills will have no alternative platform to use these skills. With support skills at level 5 you're talking a lot longer than 2 months.
Now i guess that the potion of offering a one time swap from cruise to torpedo skills would be poison for the database engineers though i'm not qualified to say.
The alternative would be a cruise platform that fits in with CCP's vision. The details of that suggestion are for another thread however I will state again that this a highly unusual situation where the pilots involved deserve some sympathy as opposed to the vaga and falcon pilots who still have valuable skills even after being nerfed.
Or give us our bomber back Range nerf it, make it hard to hit frigs, call it a heavy missile frigate, whatever.
Tactical Frigate
With the ship transplant surgery CCP are suggesting i'd like to know what's going to replace the bomber as a sniper / anti cruiser frigate in the lineup of T2 frigs? Cruisers are probably the most numerous ship class in the pvp game yet there is no longer a frigate designed to offer DPS against a HAC.
A ship based on the current bomber but carrying ranged medium weapons appropriate to race would be nice to see, it would be targeted at a specific ship class and fit in nicely with the current range of frigates, mainly because there's a gaping hole in T2 frig abilities left by the new bomber plans.
The range would be fine for post speed nerf tranquility and its stated aim does not overlap with other ships.
Bombs
Given that no one flys about with bombs in for roaming you need to have one ready for a specific situation plus have the ability to reload or change ship afterwords which will require a station, pos or carrier.
This limits them to system defense in most cases and is more hassle than most people want. To make bombs useful you need to somehow sever them from the need to be close to a logistical base. Making them cheaper, smaller, usable in low sec and have rude messages on the side would help too.
Amarrian sharks
Veterans of previous nerfs will know that CCP has a tank full of sharks with friking lazor beams attached to their heads and devs who are seen to be weak in the face of the mob have greater worries than us lot.
I like your new ship Chronotis but please can we have 2 ships instead. You'd be our hero and you wouldn't get eaten by sharks
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.01 09:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Avon
You know the Raven was once a gunboat until it was nerfed in to being a missile ship, right? Change happens.
I didn't know this and stand corrected. A quick search brought up a thread from 2003 complaining about the ravens split weapons system with missile ROF and hybrid range bonus.
Change does indeed happen judging from the following quote from said 2003 thread :
Originally by: Roba - Posted 2003.09.28
Or maybe a missile cloaking bonus? Think about it. 10sec per lvl. Right now its not effective for a Raven to fire its torps at long range because they will just be shot down. But what if at lvl 4 you got a 40sec cloak on them. Could fire them at 100km and the guy wouldn't know they were coming till the last 10 or so km.
Originally by: Avon
However, the new bomber is actually more fun (I assume you have tried it?) than the old one was.
As previously stated i like the look of the new ship. My sisi account is waiting activation because i was away during the last mirror but yes i will hopefully be testing it when i finish forum whoring, err i mean work.
The current bomber is fine despite being a relic of days when an improved cloak II and speed bonus were the last word in stealth, it's quirky yes and something of an anomaly in todays line up but ditching it completely is a sign of obsessive compulsive disorder and CCP should see a doctor immediately.
2 things i enjoy doing in this game are flying frigates and shooting cruisers, removing the bombers from the game removes the ability to stay out of point range in a fragile frigate with enough dps to be useful to a gang.
I hope CCP can see that one of their pigeonholes is now empty and give us 2 ships not one.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.01 10:04:00 -
[10]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 01/04/2009 10:04:43
Constructive asembly hall thread started here
Discuss here and vote there otherwise we simply get 2 identical threads.
Apologies to Chronotis for the extra thread to read, I tried to stem the emo tide and probably failed
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 00:06:00 -
[11]
Feedback from current SISI setup
tl;dr: Cannon is about right but i left enough broken glass lying about FD-MLJ to start a bottle factory.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis decrease the cloak reactivation delay to 15 seconds
a reasonable increase to fittings (grid/cpu)
reduction in the torpedo damage bonus to 15% per level
agility as been fine tuned ... align and warp times much faster as well now.
I'm showing 15% damage bonus but not the 15 sec delay timer and it doesn't feel more agile so think i may have caught a partial update or something for the following test?
Cannon
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: RedSplat
Do you think its reasonable to have a situation where 4 or 5 SB's can pop a BS with the second volley fired?
this is the biggest concern we have that the volley damage scales every quickly and could be overpowered in many scenarios when combined with other factors.
The damage output was good but not overpowered. Volley damage with my lvl 2 torp skills was about 3000 but a back of the envelope calculation suggests that 4,500 would be possible using lvl5 and CN ammo, however max skilled pilots are going to be rare in a ship so heavily geared towards blob tactics.
Even assuming max skilled pilots with pimped and rigged ships it would take 11 pilots to pass 100,000 damage dealt in 2 volleys and that's before taking any damage reduction factors into account.
You are spot on with damage as it is, only thing i'd like to see would be the damage bonus split between 7.5% torpedo damage and 7.5% racial damage.
Glass
15 seconds will still be enough for a drake to target you at 51m sig radius and if that's your only protection then it won't work.
A non sensor boosted cruiser should be able to target you if he's on the ball and has signature analysis trained to a high level but giving every half asleep HAC the ability to switch your tank off is unacceptable.
Most ships i fought could kill me in 4 ish volleys irrespective of whether it was a frig or a bc though a vaga ripped me apart in literally a few seconds.
Sig tank with damps was the most effective form of tank i could find but was dependent on me having equal or superior numbers and choosing a target that was slower than me who i could damp down past 25km.
Fitting
My fitting skills are all at lvl 5 apart from launcher rigging at lvl 1.
With 2x BCU II, 3x malkuth launchers, cloak and a mwd fitted i had 3.43 PG and 85.25 cpu remaining so tank simply wasn't an option, even sensor damps was tricky and certainly not possible with rigs in.
Tactics
As i've stated before i think the driving force behind this ships popularity will be its ability to travel safely through 0.0 more than any tactical niche it could fill.
Like any gank ship the idea is to get in fast and kill the enemy with superior firepower before they can effectively fire back, any engagement that draws out too long will allow the defender time to exploit your weak tank. (read only effective when blobbing with superior numbers).
I'd like to see more tactical variety introduced, a slight drop in sig radius with 10 second reactivation delay would leave you vulnerable to frigs, sensor boosted cruisers and drones so everybody could counter you with something but you wouldn't be a free kill outside of a blob situation.
Cloak tank would be hard to achieve with a blob so would prevent an entire gank blob from cloak tanking unless they were very well disciplined and practiced in which case they deserve their kills.
Hope that helps.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 08:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
Originally by: yani dumyat
Originally by: Tonto Auri Killed a good ship... /me spits
/signed
Yet all I read in S&M for like a month was how crap they are? People need to make up their minds or CCP will not have any idea in which direction to go.
Go have another look at those threads, mentally remove all the posts by merin ryrskin and then notice that there's quite a lot of people defending the bomber, most of them like myself might make a single post if they are bored but few of us can be bothered dealing with the compulsive rantings of someone so arrogant as him.
Take the time to look at a variety of eve combat and you'll notice that most FW fleets have bombers in them and i regularly see them in 0.0 support fleets. Go to a trade hub region and look at manticore sales compared to other T2 frigs and you'll see they are only usually outsold by the crow and buzzard, compare it to kitsune sales if you want to know what unpopular ship sales look like.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 13:42:00 -
[13]
The blink tactic (decloak, fire, recloak)
In testing on TQ with an onyx vs a buzzard it took 5 seconds after decloaking before the onyx could start to lock the buzzard. Anything over 5 seconds is the window of opportunity others have to switch off your cloak and the current proposal of 15 seconds leaves a 10 second gap of vulnerability.
In testing on TQ with a hound the maximum range of the missiles was 38km before they failed to do damage due to recloaking immediately after firing.
Once someone has started to target you the time between them beginning to target and gaining a lock is the bombers window of opportunity to deal damage, once your opponent has gained lock on your bomber you will die very quickly if you don't warp out.
The 15 second recloaking delay is a shoddy half way house that gives no protection at all. In pvp 3 seconds would be a more than adequate gap to begin targeting someone who's already been on your overview for 5 seconds.
Why does changing to an 8 sec reactivation delay make sense?
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
Now, you got the cov ops cloak that lets you decide when you want to enter a fight. And that all you need. Its is not a solo ship. Its a gang ship, and acts as supprise dps.
QFT - Surprise!! Blobagramme BOOM!
This is unfortunately the best that most people will come up with and "cloak lets you decide when you want to enter a fight" means "am i a bigger blob than their blob, if so engage". You can change the nature of the bomber but you can't change the nature of ganking.
A short timer means that engaging against superior numbers would be possible but would still leave you vulnerable to anyone who was on the ball, 5 seconds of announcing your arrival in the overview followed by a 3 second gap to ctrl click said overview is fine.
8 to 10 seconds is also the reload time of launchers thus forcing the bomber to choose between being vulnerable for longer and getting off another volley or lowering their dps to hit the cloak.
CCP please give us tactics not blobs.
BTW i do understand that black ops is a theater in its own right, it's possible to use tactics to split fleets, use creative ewar and other advanced strategies but really this is a gank ship and you only need to look at the preferred uses of a gank thorax to understand that glass cannon = blob.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
We are looking at increasing the batch count from 3 to 20 per manufacturing run. This means the material cost of bombs will be near 800k using current TQ prices.
\o/\o/
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: DNSBLACK
3. Cloaking Delay - 15 seconds is a close window with lag and timing. Yes with a game that is in a va****and no lag this time would work. 5-8 sec delay would be more realistic and would make the counter for these ships be the destroyer, frigs, ceptors with the fast lock times. Lets not forget the drones will also prevent this re-cloak.
In general i agree with you but i'm not sure about the counter ships being dessies frigs and ceptors, someone only has to start locking you to prevent cloaking thus a battleship can prevent you cloaking just as easily as a ceptor and once that lock is gained even battleship class weapons were killing me quickly last night and cruisers were probably the worst.
5-8 sec delay gives people a chance to lock you while retaining the only tactic bar bombs that might save this monstrosity from blobdom.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Calistai Huranu At first i had dowt's on the new path of stealth bomber use, and tho i'll miss using cruise's, i can see me getting used to the new stealth bomber's very quickly, as many have said, it's not a solo ship, these as part of a cov op's team will be a riot, all it'll require is 3-5 SB's, arazu, falcon, and rapier respectively to ruin the unsuspecting's day, afterall it'll be the arazu's job to get the point on and agress the drone's, while the trusty falcon jam's and the rapier at long last has a reason to use it's TP bonus, and web a bit, while the SB's get to wtfbbg the target.
Whoo hoo cloaky gank blob
Assuming 5 bombers, arazu, falcon and rapier can you please tell me what 8 person combat squad you would take on or would you only engage if you had superior numbers?
8 T1 cruisers camping a gate would eat this squad alive.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 18:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Fzhal Edited by: Fzhal on 03/04/2009 18:02:31 So just to clarify.
Are you able to cloak as long as they have not finished locking yet?
OR
Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak?
Murashu: How good are your skills with missiles and Cov. Ops?
Choice 2 - Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 19:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: yani dumyat
Choice 2 - Once they start targeting you you can no longer cloak.
Originally by: DNSBLACK
I am going to disagree. The locking process does not prevent you from recloaking.
Apologies for any confusion caused, in testing this appeared to be the case however i stand corrected.
Originally by: Eigof Tahr
If you don't know how cloaking works, get out of this thread, you clearly have never flown a stealth bomber or any cloaking ship in combat.
You can't cloak once someone has locked on. Standard, across the board for all cloaks.
The emo is strong in this one, please ensure he is kept away from sharp objects to prevent self harm.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 22:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Eigof Tahr
Not emo, just a belief that if you don't know what you are talking about, stop talking. Would you want someone with no kids telling you how to raise yours? Nope.
You're correct in that i don't use stealth modules much at the moment as i prefer speed and range though I used to fly the bomber a lot. There's been many cloaking changes since then and i am currently skilling a toon to use bombs so have a vested interest in what happens here as much as anyone else.
Telling people to get out of a thread and comparing internet space ships to raising kids is: mature / emo / kewl / makes your epeen hard (delete as applicable)
My primary concern is the ability to take on groups that are larger or better equipped and range, speed, ewar and tactics have have always played a part in this however glass canon gank ships haven't. By definition close range gank requires either overwhelming force or overwhelming ewar support.
My usual targets are cruisers and removing a ship from the game that can evade gate camps and deal damage to cruisers from range sucks. The cloaked speed of a manticore is kinda pathetic on sisi and certainly not up to the tactical standard of the old bomber.
Dropping the price of bombs is a welcome change to make breaking up blobs easier and increase the tactical use of the new bomber, dropping the sig radius and cloaking delay would be welcome changes that would allow for more diverse tactics.
Given that you are set on this torpedo lark giving the ability to choose between an improved II with speed bonus and no reactivation delay or a cov-ops cloak with no speed bonus and 30 sec delay would preserve much of the ships tactical ability.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.04 20:32:00 -
[20]
Paramedic "Did you see what happened?"
Concerned Bystander -> "This poor ship was hit by a nerfbat."
Paramedic -> "Ok, has any first aid been applied?" Checks for pulse and looks worried.
Concerned Bystander -> "We flogged it for a while but it wouldn't move."
Paramedic -> "This dead ship is way beyond flogging." Starts unpacking the defibrillator.
Paramedic -> "CLEAR!"
Quote: OR give us (the current SB pilots) a pirate faction frig that would fill the role you are taking away from us?
Will Manti "The Bomber" Core survive to live a life of rum, wenches and open seas?
Seriously CCP this suggestion is a gem.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.06 13:13:00 -
[21]
CCP are getting there and I for one will be training up torps 5 to use this fun little boat as long as there are a few changes.
My biggest reservation with this ship is the cloaked velocity, with navigation 5, acceleration control 4 and no speed mods in a manticore my top speed was 272 m/s = 16.32km a minute.
Traveling 100km to surprise a stationary sniper takes 6 minutes lol. I now have a magazine to read sitting by my computer for when i'm testing this ship against unsuspecting BS's in the FFA.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
To help with the manoeuvring into range, we are looking at increasing the cloaked velocity substantially (so the bomber could have a velocity between 750-1200 m/s). This way the bomber could better keep up and get into range faster with targets for a strike.
If this was needed on a cruise bomber it is very very needed on a torp bomber, no range and no speed = total fail.
MWD fits have tended to leave me dead due to sig bloom so if we are meant to sig tank an AB bonus would be welcome, possibly being able to use an AB while cloaked and an increase to base speed could achieve 1000m/s?
Sig_________________________________________________________________________________
My alliance, corp, psychiatrist and parole officer claim no responsibility for my actions on these forums. |
yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.06 19:27:00 -
[22]
Thanks to Chronotis and CCP for all your work, This is turning into a nice little ship
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Can at least you leave a paper note in your desk written "One day.. check again if now we can give SBombers a special cloak.." ?
It's more than just a post-it :)
I'll look forward to a scripted cloak or other solution at some point, please keep this on the drawing board.
Sig_________________________________________________________________________________
My alliance, corp, psychiatrist and parole officer claim no responsibility for my actions on these forums. |
yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.08 16:22:00 -
[23]
Edited by: yani dumyat on 08/04/2009 16:45:24
Bomb Targeting Suggestion
A cov-ops could place a bomb targeting beacon in space visible by members of its fleet, any bombs dropped by the fleet would automatically steer towards the beacon and detonate at that point.
Similar in some respects to a special forces team using a laser guide to direct bombs from airplanes.
The beacon could be placed in space or attached to a ship, eg:
-> Place the beacon onto the central ship in a RR gang and lob void bombs
-> Place it in space near a gate camp and use your prefered type of damage bomb.
Possibly the bomber pilot would have to lock the beacon before he could use it. This would allow the devs to alter the risk / reward for using the beacons over normal bomb launching by altering the sig radius of the beacons.
It would also allow multiple beacons to be used if you want a spread of damage.
Anyways just a little thought
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.08 19:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon If you are unable to figure how to fire a bomb PRECISELy where you want after a few minutes testign on SIS, then you are mentaly chalanged enough so I can say.. give up on computers....
It's incredbly easy!!!
Points and laughs at the person who can't use a spell checker but insults other peoples intelligence.
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yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.04.09 16:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Thenoran
Why not give Stealth Bombers a small velocity bonus then? Out of all the Frigates they are by far the slowest.
mainly comes down to the risk of obsoleting the covert ops class. This was the reason we kept the manoeuvrability down but increased the torpedo/bomb effective range which when combined with the covert ops cloak so you could safely partner with a covert ops to position you for the warp in for example. This is a compromise of a few factors to achieve the best possible balance between the frigate classes.
I understand your point though disagree about obsoleting the cov-ops class because this new bomber will put a dent in cov-ops sales regardless of speed yet probes are a very powerful tool in their own right so cov-ops will still be popular.
SISI Testing
Fitting a mwd gives you a sig bloom that makes you vulnerable to most BS sized weapons yet these are the very ships we are supposed to be attacking.
Fitting an afterburner and named medium shield extender (56m sig radius) with 2x explosive hardeners against the inevitable warrior II's was quite effective and i managed to get a trimarked paladin into 3/4 armor with this fit before his drones ate my poor little frig.
A ranged rokh who i couldn't get transversal on hurt me badly once he eventually hit.
Currently it's a loose loose choice between massive sig bloom (yet still being slower than some cruisers) or being so slow some mwd battleships can outpace us (not to mention the horrible setup i was forced to use to survive against one specific drone type).
Possible Changes
The proposed changes to range should make the classic mwd, damps and range setup possible again and thank you for this however the following changes would make a big difference.
-> A reduction in sig -> Increase in base speed -> Bonus to afterburner speed boost or MWD sig bloom reduction
A bomber should be able to move faster than a mwd battleship with small enough sig to be difficult for that BS to hit or target in 15s. At the same time it should remain vulnerable to smaller weapons.
Thanks again to the devs for your time, this is turning into a nice ship.
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My alliance, corp, psychiatrist and parole officer claim no responsibility for my actions on these forums. |
yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 18:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: DNSBLACK
(Good stuff about bombers)
3. Cloaking- Ok over all my guys like the cov cloak and the ability to warp in and not tip our hand. The issue is once on grid our speed to manuver up close is hurt. I know alot of you are saying have warp ins and such. We tried that and 5 bombers coming to the same point even if it was moving tended to decloak each other. We tried different directions and ranges on those warp in ships. Here is what we would like to see
- 15 sec recloak time instead of 30. - 20% to cloaked velocity per cov op level. This would allow my bomber who can do 288 ms to obtain speeds around 575 ms
The 20% bonus will allow us to come in cloaked and set up for the perfect shot. It also makes us commit to the fight for at least 15 sec ( on most bombers that is 2 cycles). We are willing to give up the cloak/shoot/recloak ability if you allow us the tools to set up for a good alpha up close.
(More good stuff about bombers)
CCP please listen to this man, he knows his stuff. If the speed is so low that dedicated black ops pilots have problems with warpins set by cov-ops then please spare a thought for the majority of pilots who fly these ships and are in non dedicated gangs or FW.
CCP Chronotis please grab a bomber and try to surprise a battleship in an FFA without using the wrecks as warpins and see how long it takes you to get bored and simply warp to a wreck that probably wouldn't be there on TQ. With navigation lvl 5 it takes a whole minute to travel 15 km in a manticore!!!!!
The current sisi setup handles like a slug over salt, it really wants to go faster but is reduced to painful slowness that results in cripledom then death.
I've said it before and will say it again: A bonus to afterburner speed increase and ability to use an afterburner while cloaked.
This allows a degree of sig tank while not cloaked without being outpaced by mwd tempests when the bomber's using AB.
Ideally it would be nice to see:
Caldari Frigate Bonus: 25% torpedo velocity per level 25% afterburner speed increase per level
Covert Ops Bonus: 20% torpedo explosion velocity and kinetic damage per level 5% kinetic bomb damage per level
-99.75% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs -100% targeting delay after decloaking
Note: Can use an afterburner while cloaked Note: can fit covert cynosural field generators, covert ops cloaks and bomb launchers
(15 second recloaking delay)
(Also, guess how this sentence would end :)
Faction frigates haven't been updated in a while.....
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My alliance, corp, psychiatrist and parole officer claim no responsibility for my actions on these forums. |
yani dumyat
Minmatar purple pot hogs Doctrine.
|
Posted - 2009.04.11 19:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Thenoran
Why not give Stealth Bombers a small velocity bonus then? Out of all the Frigates they are by far the slowest.
mainly comes down to the risk of obsoleting the covert ops class. This was the reason we kept the manoeuvrability down but increased the torpedo/bomb effective range which when combined with the covert ops cloak so you could safely partner with a covert ops to position you for the warp in for example. This is a compromise of a few factors to achieve the best possible balance between the frigate classes.
So your big plan to prevent cov-ops ships becoming obsolete is to make them a few hundred m/s faster while cloaked than a frigate with torpedoes? Seriously mate you're being silly. Providing warpins for cloaky gangs is the niche of the niche and given the size of gates these days the survivability difference in a bubble is pretty minimal.
Cov-ops already have probing bonuses which will ensure they remain a regular sight but if you're really worried you could try giving them:
-> Logistics bonuses. Logistics frigates have been suggested many times as a new ship class and this would add a nice role to the cloaky gangs.
-> Command and control suite for FC's. Highlighting targets, bomb targeting beacons and the ability to create instant safe spots by placing beacons in space using the F10 solar system map are possibilities.
-> Stealth detection.
-> Add other ideas here.
Whether you like my ideas or not is irrelevant to the point that i'm trying to illustrate - Adding any cloaky frigate with guns is going to encroach on the popularity of cov-ops frigates. To "prevent cov-ops ships becoming obsolete" cov-ops need a role in their own right.
If you feel that the bomber is encroaching on cov-ops territory too much then please make cov-ops more useful rather than crippling the cloaked velocity of bombers because that strategy fails to protect cov-ops sales and fails the bomber in its most basic function of stealthily getting position on a target.
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